Friday, August 04, 2006

---lebanon..

I couldn't help this ..I was just finishing the previous post about Gaza, and I just saw hundreds of pieces of people all over a big area of land...That used to be their Houses..!!!!! 33 in Lebanon. Just now!!!!! Pieces.. burnt!

Anyone wants to say anything about mistakes better go to another site..

20 comments:

Noam said...

I'm upset at what Israel is doing. But can someone explain why Muslims are marching against Israel for killing civilians while holding Hezbollah flags and calling on them to send missiles to Tel Aviv? Are they only upset at Muslim deaths, but Jewish lives don't matter? Is the Muslim world really so racist and evil?

Naj said...

from what i have seen and how i lived..i think Isarel is evil.
sorry to offend you. Thanks for reading the blog

I love Munich said...

Naj ... "upset" is most certainly NOT the most fitting word for how I feel! I am apalled, disgusted, sickened, horrified, worried sick, my heart is torn to pieces ... these kind of idioms get closer to how I feel. My prayers are with the people, the people of Iraq .. and with YOUR wonderful people! STAY STRONG Naj ... WE'RE WITH YOU!!

No noam, the Muslim world per-se is NOT racist and evil! You've got to get some facts on the groung straight - besides, don't you recognize yeet that this war is NOT AT ALL about these two kidnapped soldiers?? Don't you recognize yet that is was planned? Pre-programmed? That they waited only for a fitting situation to justify the start?? Anyone askes about the soldiers still? What's on the agenda is Hizbullah .. and destroying, destroying, destroying - and killing, regardless whom! What do you expect? Hizbullah to fold arms and sit still?? Would you?
After the horrid crimes Israel committed and still committs it will be VERY difficult for you as people won't want to see ANY Israeli anymore but I'd ask you to - one day - have the guts and get to KNOW Muslims! Sit, ask questions and LISTEN! Do NOT go to preach the Zionist ideology and how great your country is .. but LISTEN to THEIR stories for a change - and LEARN!
And ... learn about REAL Islam ... and only THEN judge!

Naj ... sending you LOTS of love!!

euroarabe said...

our hearts and minds are with you every day that you live this crime.

Noam said...

I am here on this blog trying to listen to Muslims. Please explain to me why Muslims seem so racist and evil, as I posted. I don't want to believe it, but it's hard to come to another conclusion. But please help me do so, before I give up.

Whether this conflict is a response to the kidnapped soldiers is immaterial. And you cannot excuse Muslims racist and murderous hatred of Israel's crimes unless you also excuse Israel based on the crimes of terrorists and the Muslim world that supports them.

Nizar said...

Thanks dear Najla for your endless efforts. I believe also that there is no mistake from the Israeli side and they do everything intentionally especially they have the most developed army in the region.

To Noam, the most racist country in the world is Israel with massive killing and destroying of everything. They do not have any regards to any human life. The people of Palestine and the People of Lebanon are the people who suffered a lot from the Israeli crimes and they are still suffering.

I love Munich said...

Noam ... I will! Just give me a day or so ... it's after 02:00 and I'm too tired now!

Noam said...

i love munich, I look forward to hearing from you. naj and nazir, I know many Israelis and they are (mostly) not evil, they are good people who genuinely want peace and only do evil things when they feel they are being attacked and have no choice. I hope you try to understand their thinking -- which is not evil or racist -- the same way I am trying to understand muslims. Only by understanding each others' points of view can the cycle of violence ever end (though I doubt it will).

Anonymous said...

PLEASE VOTE

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/15/mideast/index.html

Dua' said...

dear Noam,
i highly respect your opinion but let me say that saying that "Muslims are racist" is definately a generalization and reflects much about the stereotypical view of Islam and Muslims in the World and especially in the West. what i am saying here is i think u are viewing things from one perspective. my advice is: listen, read and know others and don't be judgemental. we all know that not all isaelis are evil and i assure you that not all muslims are evil either. but also i stress that there are good muslims. what many are doning is looking at the empty part of the glass and most importantly, from their own perspective.
why muslims send missiles to tel aviv? my answer is: if there is no israali occupation, israel won't be hit.
i'm gazan, lived in the west bank and went to visit my family in gaza and got stuck there for a long time. i have never sent missiles to tel aviv, never were active politically but during this experience of being stuck there, all my future was threaten. i lost a lot, including my work and was threatened to lose my schoarship. now i considered this an expereince and it didn't change the fact that i wanna live in peace. but believe me this bad expereince of mine doesn't compare to those of who got their houses demolished and their loved ones bruetally murdered, adding to the fact that people react to traumas differently. as a result many lose hope in life and start thinking of fighting back. this is how israel indrectly creates a bomb inside every single palestinian.
stay in peace

Abu Shaar said...

What incredible hubris, coming to the blog of a Muslim woman who is literally under fire and making statements (not questions) such as "Why is the Muslim world racist and evil"?

I don't have time to educate you about settler colonialism and apartheid but just take a look at say, some of the videos at the Tel Rumeida Project and then ask why the Israeli army and colonists are hated.

Have you been paying attention to the news? Are you aware the "most moral army in the world" has so far slaughtered more than 1000 civilians in Lebanon and a couple of hundred in Gaza in just 27 days?

Naj said...

Dear Noam, it is so hard not take sides sometimes. but in this case, i believe that the key thing is information. How much you know about realities of both lives matters so much. I know that i can listen and relate to Israelis who are in Israel, because both of us know what we are causing to eachother. The difference is what gets to the world. even the extremists in Israel, i understand, believe it or not, their extremism. That doesnt mean that i agree with them.
If you are genuinly trying to undertsand then dont start with statement such as "Muslim Racists" becuase this alone doesnt allow me to even start a conversation with you. this itself has so many problems with information and even general knowledge about the area.
Hope you stay tuned..
Best

Noam said...

Dua', I can’t tell you how encouraging it is to hear someone as reasonable-sounding as you, it gives me hope, which is what I am looking for. However, I am still unsure, if you could help me a little further.

Abu Shaar, you are right that in such an emotional time, when people are dying, may not be the best time to ask for a reasoned discussion. I apologize if I am offending anyone. But I assure you that my question was not a statement (and I mean this for Naj too). I have always believed that among any people—Muslims included—no one is born evil and there are good and bad people everywhere. It’s just that, based on what I see on TV, it appears so evil and racist, that I need to find Muslims who can make me understand so that I don’t give up and accept a stereotype. I don’t want to.

Dua, I can understand how the violence can build hatred in people’s hearts. I have seen this same effect among Israelis, who watch terrorists constantly attack them, massacring innocent people, children, and they start to hate. I was in Israel a month ago, and an Israeli told me “A good Arab is a dead Arab.” This is so disgusting, I shouted at him. My father, a very gentle man, said that he is tired of sympathizing and understanding – they attack us, we fight back. This kind of feeling is understandable, and I know it happens on both sides. But it is also very wrong, because without understanding and sympathy there is never hope for an end to the violence.

I do understand this, but this explanation does not go far enough, so I’m hoping you can help me understand some more. This explanation may apply to Palestinians who have suffered from Israel, but what about the people in Iraq, Iran, Egypt, and so on? These people are not under attack by Israel. They have not had their lives ruined and their homes destroyed by Israel. I can understand disagreeing with Israel’s policies, but why do they urge Hezbollah to kill innocent people? Why do they value Muslim lives but seem inured to the killing of Jewish babies? I can’t think of any other people that march in the street calling for the killing of innocent people – can you? Why is this? Can you explain? I was passionately upset by the ethnic cleansing of Muslims in Bosnia, or the slaughter or Tutsis in Rwanda, or of so many acts of genocide – but I would never have cheered on if the victims chose to start murdering innocent people. This I cannot understand.

Also, in Israel, while there are certainly racists and heartless people, there are also peace-loving people who treat everyone as equals. There is a thriving Peace Now movement, and in fact the current Defense Minister was a Peace Now activist. If one person makes a racist remark about Arabs, there are other people to call him a racist and condemn him. People regularly march in the street against the war, against the occupation, and so on. Israelis always express regret when innocent Arabs die and insist it was a mistake – even those cruel people who really don’t care about Arab life must recognize that Israelis consider this wrong and unacceptable. You never see Israelis expressing happiness at the deaths of innocent Muslims. Why do I never, ever, ever see any of this on the other side? No Muslims marching against terrorism and violence, no Muslim groups standing up and condemning the people who dance in the streets when Israeli children are murdered. There are so many posters, songs, videos lionizing killers as martyrs, but I never, ever see any posters, songs, or videos calling them killers and condemning them. Why is that?

I hope you can help me understand. Because it looks like it’s much deeper than what you say.

And Naj, I understand that it is difficult not to take sides. But can’t one can side with the Lebanese people without siding with Hezbollah – even more, without being happy every time Hezbollah kills a civilian, without cheering for them to bomb Tel Aviv? Do you see what I’m saying, this seems to go much farther than I can understand.

Just to step back and tell you where I’m coming from: In my mind, it is the people who encourage violence, racism, and hatred on both sides that are the real enemy. They are responsible for the endless suffering. And the only way to fight this enemy is for people on each side to fight those that preach these evils on their own side – fighting those on the other side just makes them stronger. That’s why I have always argued with Israelis on the side of peace and compromise. But I have lost hope, because I see no such voices on the other side, so I come here looking for any hope of an alternative to carnage.

I love Munich said...

Noam ... FINALLY I found you - I didn't know anymore which blog you were on!
I have the distinct feeling dua' did the job already ... I can agree to him at least 99%!
The CORE of the problem, only to reiterate, is the occupation - I am talking 1967! Palestinias - since then - are robbed of thge left over land piece by piece, depossessioned, humiliated, squeezed in smaller and smaller places, robbed of their means of living ect.ect. - that ALL and a whole number MORE facts pushed them, or I should say MANY, to a brink or edge of an abyss that they say: we have nothing anymore to lose - so why not pay our tormentors back with whatever weapon we have - and the ONLY they have is their own body! What comes on top that almost every singly Palestinian family has either someone in prison (NOT AT ALL always rightfully, you should know that - OR someone close killed by the IDF. ALL THAT TOGETHER in one pot - stir well ... and the agression to burst combined with bottomless frustration and pain is the outcome! Do you understand NOW? Can you NOW agree the occupation and constant humiliation are the CLEAR reasons?? You would do just the same, rest assured ... and so would MOST of the people outside!
That is the CORE of the problem - solve it, lift the occupation, release prisoners(w.o.blood) and women and children of course, establish a Palestinian state with East-Jerusalem as capital, get rid of all the checkpoints AND this horrid wall, give the Golan back to it's rightful owner ... and I assure you - Israel would have peace! that is NO fantasy Noam ... but reality. If there is afterwards a problem - do NOT shoot ... but talk!
I hope I was able to shed maybe some MORE light on the issue!

Bilal said...

Noam,

As a close friend of Naj, i read this blog often. I am not one to actually write, but in this case i feel that i have an obligation. I am an American "convert" to Islam from Christianity (and atheism). Like you, i am trying to understand my muslim brothers and sisters in the developing world. I understand them here.....they are not racist or evil. Constantly in mosques and on the websites of American Muslim groups i see protests to the crimes committed by the Western Powers, thier puppet governments in the middle east and elsewhere, and ALSO to the muslims who blindly accept violence as the only solution (of course, this is NEVER reported by the media... I can show u fatwas against bin Laden and allowing muslims to fight in the US army).

I cannot blame the people who choose the path of violence, because i am not in thier position and i know that desperation leads to desperate acts. Hatred breeds hatred, violence breeds violence.

I commend your efforts to understand us. Most people would not take it so far. That is why i am writing to you. Because, for you, there is much hope.

As far as muslims being racist, just realize that there are Jews living in many places in the Middle East (including Syria and Iran). They have always been there. They are part of the community.In fact, in Syria they run most of the businesses. Also, christians have large communities in the muslim world. Islam commands acceptance of these people. Thier churches and synagogues are older than the mosques. Muslims in the middle east do not hate Jews, they hate Israelis. There is a big difference. I have read the books of Judaism and am confident that it condemns the actions of Israel. Therefore, we cannot say that it is racism were are talking about here.

As far as "not caring" about Israeli deaths......who is to say so? You see only what the corporate media wants you to see. I assure you there are many muslims who are sickened by death PERIOD........HOWEVER, i am sure there are those, especailly in the mid. east that do not really care if an Israeli dies. After so many years of war and violence and death and destruction, can you actually blame them for becoming cold-hearted???
I pray that God protect all of us from becoming this way. Just remember, though, as i'm sure you know, many many Americans do not care if muslims die. How many times have i heard "nuke them all and let Allah sort them out"?
You know exactly what i'm talking about. Tell me, then , what is the difference between those Americans and the muslims in the mid. east?

The truth is, they are not "racist and evil", they have just grown cold-hearted and ignorant.

On Saturday there will be a large protest in front of the White House. It is an alliance of Muslim groups and anti-war Liberals :)
They will protest the support of the war in Lebanon, Palestine, AND the mishandling of the Katrina disater. Bet you didn't know that Muslims care about that:)
In fact, Islamic Relief spent millions helping New Orleans. They are one of the top aid organizations in the world.

May Allah guide you unto all truth.

Bilal said...

Almost forgot:

"oh humankind, We created you from a male and a female, and We made you races and tribes for you to get to know each other. The most noble in the sight of God are those of you who are most concientious." QUR'AN 49:13

"All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab: also a white has no superiority over a black nor does a black have any superiority over a white except by piety and good action."
~Excerpt from the last sermon of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

Does more need to be said?

Noam said...

If anyone wants to help me understand, I would love to listen and discuss, please email me at noammohr@hotmail.com. I am not looking for a debate, only to ask questions and understand.

bilal, I do not believe that every single Muslim is racist or evil, of course each person is unique with their own thoughts and feelings. I am asking about the Muslim world as a whole, and would never apply such things to any individual. Also, I don't want to suggest that Islam is bad. Every religion can be interpreted for good or for evil, history has shown.

But I still do not understand why the hate and violence seem not just dominant in the muslim world, but to the point where voices against these crimes are completely invisible. I wish someone could show me the groups in the Muslim world who are working for non-violence, peace, and understanding.

I also do not understand why there is so much sentiment focused just on Israel. Why were there no marches across the Middle East when Saddam Hussein killed tens of thousands of innocent Kurds? Or the massacre in Hama by Syria? If it's not racism, then I need someone to explain it to me.

i love munich and bilal, I understand how victims can become angry and full of hate and do terrible things. Just remember that this is just as much an explanation for Israelis' actions as it is for Arabs'.

Let me leave one piece of advice, the same one I give to Israelis. If you want the crimes to end, think about what you can do to strengthen the forces of good among Israelis. The violence and terrorism only create more violence. Many Israelis who once believed in peace under Barak have lost hope, seeing the Palestinians elect a party dedicated to its destruction and to the tactic of killing innocent people. For people who have lost hope, violence is the only perceived solution. I hope you will give them--and me--hope again.

Anonymous said...

Dear Noam,

Please watch this video to get a better picture of what's really going on in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. It is noteworthy to mention that most of people interviewed here are Jewish. Also this is a couple of years old. Things are much worse now.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7828123714384920696

Also, please visit the link below;
www.ifamericaknew.org

I'm also Najla's friend. I was born and raised in Iran and witnessed war and the destruction it creates. In fact, I along many my contemporaries were robbed of our childhood because of war. I am of both Christian and Muslim descent and grew up among Muslims, Christians, Jews, and Zoroastrians. None of us viewed eachother as outsiders. We were all Iranians and we all loved eachother. You should also kow that after Israel, Iran has the largest number of Jewish communities.

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